Emperor Trent if you would like to put out the gold to fit us all with HPA engines I would be more than happy to try it out.
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| HPA Powered Systems http://deserthawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1624 |
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| Author: | tomytum [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | HPA Powered Systems |
Been awhile since anyone has posted any airsoft technical discussions. Thought I jive the area. Sniffing the air, I'm gauging HPA systems are becoming more popular with decreasing prices and more competition getting into the arena (Companies like PolarStar, Wolverine, Valken, and possibly others). Though, I've been paying attention to Wolverine lately, they seem to get the mechanical design right by creating a drop in system for most v2 and v3 gearbox shells and get going. From what I see with PolarStar, its a complete gearbox drop in. Valken, it's just sounds like another paintball company getting into the airsoft world with paintball practices... Opinions aside, its common sense, more moving parts = more wear and tear. With the HPA systems its limited, it's a solenoid with electronic control activating the actuator to release air to propel the BB. Granted, there are things that wear out (i.e. O-rings, batteries, hoses due to fatigue, fittings, etc). Also, with these electro triggers, you can adjust the dwell and delay to fine tune your trigger response (i.e. rate of fire, etc). Rather than the traditional AEG it's just a switch and a motor to drive everything mechanically. One of the things that concerns me is the logistics of your energy. With a AEG, it's just a battery (light weight, and can carry multiples). With HPA, you got to carry an HPA tank. Bigger tank = more shots (but you really need to be refilling mid caps pretty often to empty the air tank) In the paintball world, you got different capacities, and how much pressure it can hold (i.e. 3,000PSI or 4,500PSI). Granted in Tucson, the only place I think you can really fill 4.5k is Disruptive. Others, such as scuba shops pump 3k. How much air can you survive off of? Sure, get a scuba tank so you can refill at SASCO... most dive shops that fill HPA are 3k. According to P*, their formula to calculate is (Tank Size) x (Pressure/100) = Shots @ 110psi output from tank According to Wolverine (their claim is twice efficient), their formula is (Tank Size) x (Pressure/50) = Shots @ 80psi output from tank Given that, everything is relative. Length of barrel, weight of BBs, hop up, blah blah blah, (physics oh my!) But if you think about a traditional tank (68cu, 3000PSI) on a wolverine setup, that's more than 4k bbs out the barrel (so they claim). Now, I like things all electrical and mechanical. With the HPA systems, you can tweak the electronic trigger response, dwell, delay, there's some magic formula to fine tune your settings to get the optimal ROF, distance, and FPS (if you enjoy tinkering with that kind of stuff). Also, HPA system is not temperamental with temperature and rate of expansion of gasses (high ROF). With batteries, with colder temps, it does affect the system (but hey, who plays at 0F in Tucson) Price, is it worth it? Have existing base AEG System minus the gearbox internals. Looking at the Wolverine SMP, it's being sold for $390 (V2, V3), ASGI. On top of that, you need an airtank, could go cheap, $50 Steel tank and up (lightweight carbon wrapped)... Regulator/hose rig for the airtank, ~$150 If you're a safety nut: Tanks have a expiration, re-hydro every 5 years. ~$25 and up Optional: Scuba Tank for more air refills ($100 for used and more $$ for newer on initial, refills ~$5 for the tank @ dive shop) + Fill station rig ($30) There are pros to HPA system (maintenance,etc), but the cons are cost and logistics of the propellent. Just my thoughts on a lonely late night. |
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| Author: | TJC10 [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
1st, I don't have time to answer all now so I will put in 2 cents now and add to it in a bit. Wolverine. Hands down all around for our play style and level of tech expertise. Polarstar gen 2 is good and best for snipers and other experts with its electronics. Valken is just bad from all the reviews I have seen. MAP Price. Polar Star $500 Valken $450 Wolverine $390 We also have a friend that will be selling Wolverines soon. More later |
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| Author: | ultimentra [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
As I told trent, seeing is believing. I have never spoken to someone with a polarstar that would let the precious out of their clutches long enough for me to shoot it at all, so I have no idea what they are like or what it's like to run with a tank and hose. It would be nice to see/experience first hand those things before dropping the cash. I'm not saying that I am not intrigued by the possibilities, as I am, but I am also skeptical. |
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| Author: | kileyhaz [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
Too many douche nozzles with HPA systems. My take is that it is only a matter of time before they are banned from MILSIM organized events. |
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| Author: | TJC10 [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
I R a douche nozzle. However, I honestly see a need... History lesson, the reason why Rome's Legions were so great was not due to size or skill. It was merely due to the Legion's ability to adapt their enemies technology to themselves. A spatha was a long sword used by northern Europeans that the Romans tweaked and gave to its cavalry to help reach foot soldiers from a mounted position. The gladius was too short. BTW Roman cavalry units were hardly ever made up of citizens of Rome, but comprised of barbarian auxiliaries. In essence, the weapon of my enemy is mine when I kill him or steal it. I will have a douche gun so that I can be competitive with the douches. We currently have a friend with a hook up but need to make a more than one unit purchase to get any special deal. |
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| Author: | ultimentra [ Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
Emperor Trent if you would like to put out the gold to fit us all with HPA engines I would be more than happy to try it out.
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| Author: | TJC10 [ Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
learn to club your enemy and reap the spoils. shit worked for cain. |
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| Author: | psykoboy [ Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
Yeah poor Ainsley (cough) I mean able....... |
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| Author: | zombiepancake [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
I've had a polarstar and now have a wolverine smp. Hands down the wolverine is better in my opinion. I can attest to the efficiency of the smp. I play at toxic every weekend and can go a month without refills(90ci 4500psi) I get roughly 8000-10,000 shots depending on if I use full auto and what rps is set at. However, if you want to build a dmr that can get the most effective range polarstar would be the better option. The polarstar has the ability to finely tune each setting and is a forward biased nozzle result in a longer effective range of the rifle, but it'll take you quite a few hours or days to precisely tune it, if you know what you're doing. Also carrying a carbon fibre tank is like carrying a full bladder of water. Don't go with a steel or aluminum tank. As for price takedown I got mine relatively cheap for an hpa system. Browse paintball forums for used tanks. I paid $340 shipped for my smp on black Friday. $120 for my firebase regulator and line (evike) and only $75 for a ninja 90/4500 with 3.5 years of hydro left off pbnation. So a total of $535. It can be done relatively cheap, just have to look for the deals. |
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| Author: | zombiepancake [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
Also, I let everybodyshoot my rifle. If we are ever at a game together, just ask me. I have no problem letting other people try out the truly amazing capabilities of the hpa system. |
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| Author: | TJC10 [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
 thanks Nick.
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| Author: | TJC10 [ Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
Off to Tempe to get my gear. I will post a videography of the build. The psychological impact is fairly over. I am focusing away with the SMP project. With Jed and I bereft, I will be bringing out to LC a bottle of 10+ (21 yo if I can find it) year old Bushmills so that you all may be able to help us send our heroes. |
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| Author: | tomytum [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
Pros and Cons from TJ (fb thread) Cons: 1. It was harder to do than I thought it would be. 2. There were modifications that I didn't realize that there would be. (on 02b Gearbox Shell, The 02B has some serious reinforcements that had to dremel out to get the SMP into it.) 3. I have never set up an air rig so I had to do it twice because I didn't tighten the fittings enough and it leaked. 4. Factory settings are really hot. 120 psi is well over 400 fps @ 33 rps. And that is with a 363x6.05 barrel. Wait until it sees my 650x6.03... Pros: 1. Wait until it sees my 650x6.03... 2. AZairpower. Scott Van Tuyl is on point with price and all around bad assery. 3. When I build another I know what to expect and could do it in under an hour. 4. Quiet. A real good mock can could make it near silent. 5. FAST trigger response. I almost don't want to burst. I need to lower the ROF down to 15 to 20 rps and set the dwell. I actually think I will set it to burst mode. I am also going to experiment with using the RPK front end as well. |
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| Author: | tomytum [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
I found this article interesting... "VHF Misfires" With interference at 150MHz... Doubt we'll ever deal with those frequencies on the field. http://www.michigan6mm.com/printthread.php?tid=121 |
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| Author: | TJC10 [ Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HPA Powered Systems |
I have the fps set to 330 with .30's and the rof at 20 rps. This is at 75 to 78 psi. Polar Stars need extra parts to do that and at $50 more than I paid for my entire set up plus the cost of the extra parts, I say shenanigans. Now if I could just get Kiley to stop calling me a douche. |
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